Episode 262 – Get more done by letting others help: Mastering the art of delegation with Gina Cotner – Founder and CEO of Athena Executive Services

Episode Transcription

This is the Ultimate Advisor Podcast, the podcast for financial advisors who want to create a thriving, successful and scalable practice. Each week we’ll uncover the ways that you can improve your referrals your team, your marketing, and your business operations, helping you to level up your advising practice, bring in more assets and create the advising practice that you’ve dreamed of. You’ll be joined by our hosts Brian Sweet, who is moving fast towards a billion dollars in assets under management, Brittany Anderson, the driving force for advisors looking to improve their operations and company culture, and Draye Redfern who can help you systematize and automate your practices marketing and to effortlessly attract new clients. So what do you say? Let’s jump into another amazing episode of The Ultimate Advisor Podcast.

Brittany Anderson 1:07

Welcome back to The Ultimate Advisor Podcast you are in for a treat today. As I have with me Gina Cotner. Gina is the founder and CEO of Athena Executive Services, a firm that appears virtual executive assistants around the United States with swamped and successful entrepreneurs and executives. Her team of high caliber executive assistants work part time from home, taking many tasks and projects off the plate of successful people, leaving them free to spend their time where they are needed the most. Gina has worked remotely for over 15 years on national and international team. More recently, she’s focused on the work life balance, wellness and personal satisfaction of busy professionals. She’s known for developing leaders and having them rise on up around her. Gina, welcome to the show.

Gina Cotner 1:57

Thanks, Brittany. Thanks for having me.

Brittany 1:59

Well, I have been really looking forward to this because I think that in having conversations with our advisor audience, the overwhelm is a real thing. And delegation in itself can be really difficult. And I will say I am firsthand, guilty. I have been a drive by delegator, I’ve been the dump and go, I’ve been the little details. I’ve been the too much details. So I want to get right into it with you. So you can talk about why should you delegate in the first place, we may have a few people that have the mindset, they can do it better, faster, cheaper, easier, whatever that looks like. Can you talk about the why behind this?

Gina 2:35

Yeah, I love to start by just saying you can you can actually do it better, faster, cheaper yourself. That’s accurate. So the question is, do you want to keep doing it? You know, do you want to keep being the one that does the invoicing? Do you want to keep being the one that makes sure that Aunt Mabel has signed on line 32, or you want to be the one who follows up with a third email, like do you want to keep being that so really why delegate is it is vestment in who you probably want to be and who you want to become. And it is a bit of a leap, you know, it’s a leap, it’s a leap of faith, it’s a jump, you’re gonna have to trust people in a way that maybe you don’t have to when it’s just you, but you’re investing much like y’all are investing people’s money, you’re investing your time counting on a return on investment in the future. So then the future Britney, or the future, Matthew, or the future, whomever six months from now is now not the one doing that thing. And in the27ning, it won’t be easier, faster, cheaper, it really won’t, it’s gonna take your time, but you’re investing in something on the front end, right? Just like you all would tell anybody, right? Invest now, because it will compound same thing, the more you invest now in your assistant, or even an office manager or anybody you’re delegating to, and the more time you sink in today, or this week, or this month, the less of that is going to be on your plate three months from now, six months from now, 12 months from now. So you’re really investing in who you’re going to get to be in the future. And the sooner just like you guys would say to your clients, I think the sooner you start investing, the faster you’re going to get there.

Brittany 4:12

Yeah, you know, you immediately made me think about, there’s a book, it’s by Dr. Benjamin Hardy, and it’s be your future self now. And I think that what you’re highlighting here is is exactly that. It’s thinking about how you want to spend your time, where do you want your time spent? And the you know, the thing is, is with with proper delegation, and with true, impactful delegation, the goal is to find somebody who’s not only great at the stuff that you’re giving them, but who actually loves it, who enjoys it, who that fills their cup, so then it’s a win across the board, you’re freeing yourself up, plus you’re giving people things that they are going to excel at and feel really confident in. So I would be curious on the flip side of this because I think about our advisor audience and I would bet that anybody tuning in could raise their hand to say there’s a few things that they would need to get off they’re playing, even if they’re master delegators. There’s always something. So when you have people coming to you wanting help wanting support, how do you qualify that? Like, who are you the best fit for? How do you best support kind of all of that part of the business or part of the process? I should say,

Gina 5:18

Yeah well, somebody’s got to be ideally, you’re swamped in, you’re successful, and you’re successful, because you’re swamped. And you’re swamped, because you’re successful. So now you’re kind of at that breaking point. And that’s a good time to bring in somebody like us. Now you might bring in, you know, we, like you said in the intro, you know, we’re a high caliber product. So we’re not the cheapest product at all, we’re probably one of the most expensive in the United States. And you might start out with a $6 an hour VA from the Philippines, I don’t know, maybe they can do some of the low level tasks, what I call TaskRabbit thing, but then you get to a point where you want somebody who can think with you and be on your team and have your back and know that you don’t need them 40 hours a week, you know, 10 hours a week would make a huge difference. But they’ve got the level of business acumen and drive to say, hey, Brittany, what are we up to this quarter? Okay, good. What can I do? What are you doing? Like, they are not an expert in things that you’re an expert in. But they want you to win. And it’s so empowering to have somebody else who’s like, what are we doing, but also takes care of you as a human being. And that’s the other thing that I think advisors and a lot of people forget is it feels sort of bougie to delegate something that’s personal, like where are we going to have mom’s 80th birthday party? Where which flights are we gonna look at to take the family to Maui for spring break? But that’s half your Saturday has gone doing that. So you know, even though that kind of stuff feels bougie it’s also very freeing, right? Again, then what kind of, you know, mother, father, husband, wife, partner, do you get to be when half your Saturday isn’t taken up with a bunch of stuff? So yeah, a few ideas about that?

Brittany 6:53

No, I think that brings up such a great point. And it really brings me to my next question is, you know, when somebody’s thinking about getting some sort of assistant type health help, there’s really a couple different ways that it could be looked at. So they could go the direction of this kind of virtual assistant that you’re talking about, versus a true executive assistant. And I think just from what I’ve witnessed, and even my own struggles, it’s hard to decide you don’t what direction do I go? What’s the difference? What do I need at this point in time? So can you elaborate a little bit on the difference between those two aspects? Or those two roles?

Gina 7:27

Yeah, yeah, I’d say when you want to find somebody, virtually, you’ve got three buckets out there. So you’ve got more cheap and overseas, where I would assert less command of the English language, you may not want them to be client facing, right? That needs to be more benign task doing. And I’m sure there are many exceptions to the rule. So I hate to paint all that in one big broad brushstroke, then you have us high caliber executive assistants in the United States, and you have agency and just like any other business, if you pay an agency to do work for you, you’re paying them to do the vetting, the screening the developing, so then you can just delegate through the house and the kitchen sink at somebody and, and they’re having a problem in their personal life, okay, that’s the agency’s problem. That’s not your problem. Then in the middle, there’s something I call a unicorn, which is somebody sitting at their dining room table right now in Kansas City, and they probably be perfect for you. They’ve got like the right level of business acumen, they’re working for themselves, they’re not going to charge as much as my agency charges. And they’re going to be a little more than you know, what you get overseas. And they’re perfect for you, except now you have to go find them. So now you have that job, which you’re not exactly an expert at, right, that’s not the highest and best use of you. So you know, where do you start? It’s hard to say, if you feel obviously really pinched for money, maybe you start at the cheaper end, I think like any product, whether it’s clothing, or luggage, or electronics, the more you can afford, the better product you’re gonna get. And the more you’re gonna say, oh, man, I can’t imagine it any other way. So I would tend to say pay the top dollar, but maybe less hours, right? Start off five to 10 hours a week and then grow. The other thing you can keep in mind that it’s really fun is that whoever’s with you in week, one by week, 12, they’re producing a whole lot more in that same 10 hours. So you’re getting more bang for your buck. As time goes on. Now it will plateau at some point, you’ll go oh, man, I just simply need more than 10 hours out of this person. But that’s a fun aspect that happened.

Brittany 9:28

Yeah, you know, so what I’m thinking about here too, as an advisor listening in and I know you’ve said in the past that you work with a lot of advisors and advisor practices. So if somebody is gearing up and starting things, starting to think about the things that they could get off their plate, you know, maybe they’re toying with this idea of having an executive assistant or virtual assistant or, or whatever that looks like for them. What advice could you give on helping them to really be prepared for a proper handoff and I’ll preface this by saying I have been guilty in the past Just bringing somebody in thinking I need admin support. But I didn’t take the time right away to define exactly what does that mean? So are there any insights, tips tricks that you can give to our audience there? Yeah,

Gina 10:11

I would just start making a log, you can start making a log today, what are the activities that you do that are almost like lather, rinse repeat, every week, you got to deal with this. Every time you meet with a client, you need a one of these, a two of those and a five of those every time after you meet with a client, you need the A and a B and a C, right? Write down what is repetitive, what what. And what of that is not enlivening for you, you might actually be the best at it, but it’s draining for you. Because you do not look forward to it that repeatable processes are excellent things to give away. And it might be you know what, I really do love doing that. And that is not the highest and best use of me. So come on Gina, just sometimes I’m like, I really love doing that. But don’t you dare. Like that’s just a dumb use if you don’t do that. So you can start a log of those things that you’re not great at, they’re repeatable. They’re not the highest and best use of you. And then you can look with whoever you’re bringing on board, to what degree, it might be more admin level work, but it might be higher, you know, at our firm, we’re not expert in what I’m going to call the all the backend paperwork that you guys do, but we do it because advisors say, Well, I really trust my EA, I think she’s got the level of integrity and ethics that we need, I’m going to train him or her and how to do this. And then they end up training their EA and how to do this. So

Brittany 11:30

that’s a whole other aspect. Yeah. And, you know, that’s where my brain started going to, as I was thinking about all the different modalities that are in, you know, that involve, let’s talk about an advisory firm. You know, we’ve kind of talked and played off of the admin or maybe paperwork support front end back end. But we can expand this even further. I mean, there’s opportunities for marketing, for social media management. I mean, there’s so much out there. So I guess, kind of thinking outside the box, are there tips that you could give that would help somebody really think maybe even bigger than just I’m overwhelmed, I’m buried, I’m, you know, I need support, like, what are just some creative things that you’ve seen people hire for in the past? Yeah,

Gina 12:09

exactly what you say a lot of things, somebody you know, wants to start a podcast. Yeah. And you know, your EA is maybe not a podcast expert, but they are another brain that would go do the research you would have done. And so you’ve got a lot of creative projects on your mind that you would get to someday, you know, someday, when I stopped being so overwhelmed, I’m going to get to this, okay, those are excellent things to give to your EA and your EA may not complete that project, but they may get the ball rolling, which is my favorite, one of my favorite things to give to my EA is the beginning of a project, you know, Corrine, I want to do A, B and C, I don’t even know where to start, go. Well, she’s gonna go do all that initial research. And she’s gonna say, okay, Gina, here’s what I’ve learned about that topic. And now I’ve got some wisdom. Now I go, okay. All right, I want to hang a left, I want to go right. So you get a second brain in that regard. So all the creative, yes. Because that’s never going to seem like the most important thing to do today. And you’re never going to get around to it. The other thing I do is I would tell your EA when you hire them, listen, these are the critical things we’ve got to go to work on. Here’s the five or 10 things that over the last three years I’ve just never got into, because they will get if they’re good at their job, they will get excited and fired up about that. Especially if it’s a time when like you go on vacation, maybe it’s spring break in your family, maybe it’s winter break, that’s a good time when you’re gone for your EA to delve into those projects that know what he’s getting around to. Yeah,

Brittany 13:29

no, I think that’s I think that’s such great advice. And really what it makes me pivot to you is this topic of accountability. And if you’re thinking about it immediately when I’m thinking about all these things you have as pipe dreams, where it’s like, all these things would be great to do. I want to start, I want to write a book, I want to start a podcast, I want to get more active on social, you know, there’s all these things that we have on our wish list that just kind of sit out there. So can you just talk through? How could an EA be somebody that really helps hold the advisor accountable, hold the business owner accountable to what they’ve said matters most? Yeah,

Gina 14:05

well, you’ve got to tell them right in the beginning before you hire them, you want that and if they’re good, they’re going to just start salivating. They’re gonna be so excited like our yeas, that’s their most favorite is when you let them in and you let them under the hood of the company and say, Listen, you know, Allison, I’m a complete criminal when it comes to this. I never get around to this thing and I need you. I personally I love being boss, right? It gets tiring being the boss. So I turn things over to my managers or to over to my EA and I say I need you to manage me. I will be a good team player. I will write the quarterly newsletter but you must come back to me and tell me Gina I need to draft by this date. Here are three possible things you could write on. I need you to manage me now that once you get people thinking like that, they get excited and you’ve got to now as the big boss, you’ve got to be a great team player, right? You’re the best app but you’re not the manager and it really empowers and like Imbolc runs them to say you’re accountable for this project. I know you’ve never done a project like this. Neither have I, like one of my managers moved all of our payroll over to gussto. And I said, Listen, I know you’ve never moved an entire company over to gussto. Neither have I. So you start, I will be one of your greatest team members, but you own this. And she did. And then you give them all the credit, right? Because they’ve done the heavy lifting. It is so much fun. I’m so glad you asked that. Because it really gets exciting when you tell them and again, honestly, I’d give them some personal stuff, too. I would say you know, you’re not getting to yoga, you know, you’re not getting to Pilates. You know, you’re not walking as much as you should just tell them that say, I want you to bug me every Friday, I want you to ask me, what was my average steps? Or what’s my sleep score on my aura ring or whatever, let them support you in just being vital and thriving in all areas of life makes such a difference.

Brittany 15:49

I love that. And I think that you touched on kind of my next question really, really well already. But I would just like you to elaborate a little bit more, you know, when I think about these things, and really letting somebody in and setting them up to succeed, which in turn sets you up to succeed. What are some other pointers that you can give to really help that relationship thrive? The relationship between the assistant and the entrepreneur or the advisor, in this case? What are just some tips that you can give to really make sure that’s a homerun? Yeah. Well,

Gina  16:18

when you very first start out, remember, they don’t know you and you don’t know them. So on the one hand, like starting a new relationship, that can be a little bit freaky, but it’s awesome. You You can be the very best you like you can be the you you always wanted to be because they don’t know who you’ve been. So they’re not going to be like wow, she never talks like that you can be like the most awesome delegator you can be so the what you want to strive for, I think in the beginning and throughout your entire partnership is the affinity is in place, our partnership is in place, I’m for you, and the more our relationship and you’re not concerned about whether or not I like you, and whether or not I’m gonna throw you under the bus, we get our relationship solidified. Now we can go play hardball, we can produce some real results. What I mean is, let’s say you’re my EA and you do a project. And you’re the project’s a little off, not quite what I wanted. Now, your propensity as the boss might be to not say anything, because you’re in a new relationship, you don’t want them to feel awkward, you don’t want throw you want to quote unquote, call them out. Now, you’ve got to do that. Because in the beginning, if this partnership, let’s say it’s a ship, it’s an actual ship. And let’s say it’s off the coast of the United States, and it’s pointed toward Tokyo, and it’s got to go to Tokyo, but you let it get off course by five degrees, you’re going to end up in Singapore. So correct early and correct, often with as much kindness and care as you can. But if they know right from week one, that you’re going to let them know when something’s off. And that’s just simply how you operate. You don’t have to try to warm up into that. And that makes a huge difference. And you’ll eat for some people listening, you know, that’ll be a skill you’ll have to grow, you know, because people are nervous to correct another person. Oh, I don’t want them to feel bad. Great. You can just say, Listen, Cory, this is not personal. I think you’re awesome. Now, can we look at this project you just did over here, please don’t do it like that. Please do it like that. Okay, cool. And I’m here, I’m available for you if you have any questions, right. So you want to be a really great resource. If you’re a safe place for people to come to, they’ll come to you. But you as the boss, you want to be correcting and coaching and correcting and coaching and correcting and coaching. Why? Because three months from now, you’re not gonna have to say anything, I can just say to my EA, I want to go, I’m gonna go see my mom again. I go see her once a month, she’s in Palm Springs. She knows everything about how I want to travel, all I have to say is I want to leave on this date, I want to come home on this day that thing is done. But that’s because I did coaching and correcting last

Brittany 18:37

year. Yeah. And I think that’s such a valuable input. And really, I mean, if we want to expand this, that input right there that you just gave can be applied, whether you are hiring a virtual executive assistant, or not, or somebody that’s on your team right now. I think that how you lay that out how you handle that, you know, people so often especially those that come with, let’s call it a servant’s heart, like somebody that truly loves to serve and loves to help and support others. They want and need that feedback and that redirection. So I think how you laid that out there, Gina is absolutely beautiful. So I would love for you to share. We’re gonna kind of flip the script a little bit here. So I would love for you to share. Obviously, you’ve worked with a lot of team members, you’ve worked with a lot of you know, different entrepreneurs from all over business owners, just all a whole plethora of individuals. Where is one place that you see people typically getting in their own way? Yeah, good.

Gina 19:32

I think and it’s understandable but I think it’s a lack of trust in other people, which we have all kinds of evidence to not trust people right from whenever we were three years old, all the way up to something that happened last week. But without some amount of trust and this cultivating of real partnership you’re going to just be left with whatever you personally can accomplish inside of Brittany’s personal skill set competencies, the amount of time You have your ability to dream is going to be limited. If all we’re working with is Britney, even if we make Britney bigger, better, brighter, smarter, faster. So people you know, who are really up to big things. You’ve got to learn to trust other people and cultivate partnerships and yet not get walked all over right now just blindly trust people, right? But how are you going to cultivate partnerships? Because the more partnerships you’ve got, the bigger you can drain. So I that’s probably a whole podcast for a whole other day. But yeah,

Brittany 20:31

no. And I love that question of it. That’s, I love that explanation. And I that’s actually the first time when I’ve asked questions that are along those lines in the past. That’s the first time that I’ve heard it answered that way. And I really appreciate that. Because, you know, I think that oftentimes, too, and maybe this is a whole other podcast, but oftentimes to when, when you’re a high achiever, when you’re a driven individual, it can be really easy to just internalize, and just feel like you have to be Superman, or Superwoman and take it all on. But I love how you said that, like in order to truly shine and come into your light, like, Yeah, are you capable? Sure. But are you really going to be unleashed in the way that you should be? Probably not. So I think that that that is such an interesting spin on that. So I really appreciate that answer. And you also made a comment too, about, you know, your dreams and leaning into that. And, you know, embracing whatever is ahead of you. So Gina, I would be curious, what is one big aspiration you have for your future? And this could be personal, it could be for your business kind of wide open across the board? Yeah.

Gina 21:37

Well, I’m looking at that. So it should also ask me in a year. In 2024, I’m asking myself that because I did found this company and I have managed to turn it over, I have worked myself out of a job. So I work five to 10 hours a week. So on the one hand, I’m quote, unquote, kind of living the dream, right, and I’m learning golf, and I competed, pickleball. And you know, I go to California and see my mom and all of that. But I’m also only 52. So, you know, what, what are we going to do here with the next 50 years? Gina Connor. And that is a big question that I have on my plate right now. And I think I’m giving myself this year to really dwell on it. And I have a list going of, if you could do anything, what would you do? And if I have a wild idea, just add it to the list. But I think if I were to look into my crystal ball, I think where I’m headed is I you know, I want this for 10 more business owners, and then 10 more business owners and then 10 more business owners, you know, what does it take to work yourself out of a job, not because you just like your job, but maybe you’re turning over your practice to the next generation. Or maybe you know, who knows what your succession planning looks like. But anybody succession planning has something to do with this business can’t revolve around you anymore. Or there’s just people who love what they do, but they don’t want to do it 40 hours a week, they just want to do it 20? You know, and what does that take? So that that’s what’s looking like is going to be part of my dream. And my future is, you know, how do you how do we have more and more and more of us empower leaders to rise up around us a it fulfills them, like you said, it’s they’re the servant leaders out there, like that just fulfills them and then weren’t fulfilled?

Brittany 23:14

You know, you just you just made mention of, you know, the servant leaders again, and kind of your own future and all of these different things. So one thing that I thought was interesting in your bio, Gina, is how you talked about, you know, how you work to really call it raise leaders, bring them up, help them shine? So can you give just maybe a couple insights there for our audience on how maybe they could embrace that and do something similar with their team?

Gina 23:40

Yeah, I think what what I’m finding that really helps people grow and become bigger in their role is you give them more, you give them more trust, I’m going to say, I wish I got to come up with a better phrase than this, but a longer leash than they deserve. Right, you’re gonna give them more room to run, they’re qualified to take to a project to a five out of a 10. But you hold them to account for getting to an eight out of a 10. And you know, and they know, they’re not really quite qualified. Okay, well, let’s see, like, let’s see what they generate. Let’s see what they hustle. Let’s see what they learn. Let’s see what they dig into and go Gosh, suit Gina, I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to do this. And I’ll go, I don’t know if you are either. Let’s go. Like, let’s see how far you can get. Because you’ll be amazed people have got more in them than you think they do. And I’m not certain about this. But as I go into my next chapter of my career, I’m going to interview a lot of business owners and find out what do you bump into in raising up those leaders around you? And I think a lot of the lid is up. It’s us, the business owners who go well, I don’t know, I’ve got I need to hire somebody younger, I need to hire somebody older. I need to hire somebody more this more that. I don’t know, you’re the common denominator in all those good hires and bad hires. So you know, we got to deal with ourselves, but that nine times out of 10 Whoever I delegate something big to runs with it way further than I thought they were. And again, I say, Hey, I’m a resource over here, but this is your baby. And that really don’t. And that really develops people and I hold them to account. I say, well have you What have you got for me next Wednesday, you gotta come to me with three proposals. Are you on track for that? And then when they do they feel so triumphant. You know, they’re like, Yeah, I did that. And then of course, I make a point to shout from the mountaintop Korean did that you want to know why I got an awesome yacht cruise for like, 50th birthday in the Puget Sound, which I know nothing about. That’s all because of her, you know. So I just like make a big deal out of everything that people try out. But it starts by me giving people more than they deserve.

Brittany 23:57

I love that. And I think that you bring up such a great point, too, because we hear this all the time is you need some insert whatever that word is something better someone the younger, the older the you’re trying to pigeonhole this demographic, and it’s like, well, they’re, they’re humans, like, we’re all human. And we all have innate strengths. And we all have any weaknesses. And, you know, sometimes it really is, it’s hindered by what you can give, I can think of a couple team members and one of our companies that we recently gave more responsibility to. And, you know, we basically said in full faith, hey, take this run, we believe in you. And it was like their whole world lit up. But it was so beautiful to see and exciting for both ends, because they’re hungry, and they’re after it. And you’re basically covering or closing a void, I guess I could say in the company. So it’s a total win win across the board. So before I ask my final question, I have a couple of things for you. If somebody wants to get ahold of you, they want to see how your company could support them. Where would they go? What would they do?

Gina 26:39

Yeah go to our website, which is Athena executive services.com. You can learn a lot. And there’s a variety of buttons on there that say, Do you want to learn more, click here, it’s going to lead you that pathway is going to lead you to a woman named Jennifer Tracy, and she’s one of my managers. And she’s just she’s sitting at home right now today in Peoria, Illinois. That’s where she lives. And she’s the sweetest person to talk to. And even if you’re not too sure she’ll brainstorm with you. She’ll be like, Yeah, you know, we’re probably not it for you right now. But consider this consider that and she herself has been an EA for financial, a great financial advisor, actually in South Dakota. So she’s just a great person to connect with. Yeah, you can brainstorm with her and she’ll let you know what she thinks. Isn’t it?

Brittany 27:18

Awesome? Well, Gina, what haven’t I asked you that I should have today?

Gina 27:24

Boy, I don’t know. You’re you know, that was a good one about my own future, because that is right, where I maybe you’d ask just kind of what got me here. You know how did I?

Brittany 27:33

Let’s hear it. What got you here?

Gina 27:36

Honestly., I think it’s everything. When you look back, right? DNA, parents schooling, all those prep jobs that you were like, Why did I take that job? When I was 22? I learned something that relates to having opened this business. Why did I do that volunteer gig? Well, because that actually fed into being this, you see, and also, I’m just delighted as I look back that everything fed into now. 

Brittany 27:58

I have to say Gina, your mindset around that is because you choose that mindset. And I think that is so powerful. And that is probably why a huge attribute to why you’ve had the success that you’ve had is because people could look at their past and feel like things happen to them. And instead you’re looking at it saying this all happened for me. Everything has led me to and on the trajectory that I’m on and the future that will be so I think that is just such a powerful mindset to have. And it’s been so fun getting to know you on here. Thank you for giving our audience some of your time. We know it’s the only commodity that you can’t make more of. 

Gina 28:35

That’s right. That’s right. Thank you, Brittany, so much for having me.

Brittany 28:38

Awesome.Well, that wraps up today’s episode of The Ultimate advisor podcast. If you liked what you heard from Gina, give it a share. Give it a like and be sure to subscribe. So you were the first to hear when the next episode drops. We’ll catch you right back here next time.